Dec 4 2008Jack Black as Jesus in 'Prop 8 - The Musical'

first! same sex marriage sucks ha!

soo good. great job, girl from scrubs, guy from talladega nights and doogie howser :) annd i love allison janney!

soo good. great job, girl from scrubs, guy from talladega nights and doogie howser :) annd i love allison janney!

Sarah Chalke + Sodomy = Fantastic

I think I would like to see a full production of this. Also, glad they didn't give Sarah Chalke a solo. Shudder.

He is a humorous guy, many friends like to chat with him online at ***INTERRACIALLOVING.COM***. He often told us some funny jokes. Seems he is famous on that site, especially some HOT and SEXY women talk with him positively.

I don't know- as asinine political commentary goes I thought this one was fine.
Of course I am a bleeding heart liberal... and a bisexual... so might I be a little bit biased? Yeah. But if this is the way to spread the word then I say- NO TO PROP 8!
Oh and I can't wait for the usual line of truculent, narrow-minded, vacuous jackasses to come parading through here to spew their bullshit about the homosexual agenda and how gays want to ruin traditional marriage. I'll just sit back and watch the show.

I don't know- as asinine political commentary goes I thought this one was fine.
Of course I am a bleeding heart liberal... and a bisexual... so might I be a little bit biased? Yeah. But if this is the way to spread the word then I say- NO TO PROP 8!
Oh and I can't wait for the usual line of truculent, narrow-minded, vacuous jackasses to come parading through here to spew their bullshit about the homosexual agenda and how gays want to ruin traditional marriage. I'll just sit back and watch the show.

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't automatically make it bullshit.

And again, doing the opposite of whatever these braindead celebs tell me to do sounds like the best idea in the world. Prop 8 in every state.

that was pretty awesome

prop 8 is bullshit

Yes for Prop. 8! No celebrity can change my mind on this topic. Please read up really what the Bible has to say.

Wow....that was total crap.

Working in the California school system...I know all about district plans if No on 8 went into effect.

Not to mention they need a bit of an American history lesson.

Attacking religion is not gonna make me appreciate your cause, faggots.

I wish the fags would just get back in their closets.

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Where was all this BEFORE the election? The "yes on prop 8" people totally overpowered the "no" people when it mattered.

Intresting

Hey "rob". That's called voting.

I suppose this is still relevant because Prop 8 might be voted unconstitutional by the courts. However, it would of course have been better prior to the elections. Better late than never, though. I actually laughed, which is rare from a Funny or Die video.

This isn't really attacking religion, it's making fun of the people who use religion to justify their hateful beliefs. The Bible forbids women to style their hair in a way that might entice men, for crying out loud. The Bible is full of awesome messages, but it also has some messages that we completely ignore because they are outdated or just plain unethical.

I guess I just don't understand bible thumpers and homophobes.

I suppose this is still relevant because Prop 8 might be voted unconstitutional by the courts. It would of course have been better prior to the elections, but better late than never. I actually laughed, which is rare from a Funny or Die video.

This isn't attacking religion, it's making fun of the people who use religion to justify their hateful beliefs. The Bible forbids women to style their hair in a way that might entice men, for crying out loud. The Bible is full of awesome messages, but it also has some messages that we completely ignore because they are outdated or just plain unethical. Last I checked, the main messages were love your one God, and be nice to other people. Ironically, it's that second one that people forget while they're busy calling everyone else a sinner.

I guess I just don't understand Bible thumpers and homophobes.

This musical was so gay...

@11 Fuck you and your Bible. I don't believe in that fairy tale shit. Why are forcing your beliefs on me? Your Bible says CHOICE is the bedrock of Salvation. Taking mine away? You're a Nazi cow and I hope you suffer.

Haha, this vid was great. As a believer, a Jew, and someone who has READ the bible, I think prop 8 is a load of bullshit. I voted NO on Prop 8!

The Bible is not a neat little rulebook-- it is much deeper than that. It's a deepy philosophical and moral guideline applied to a diverse community, meaning interpretations will vary A LOT. That's one of the many reasons America tries to enforce a seperation between Church and state. It hasn't always worked, but hey, we try. If you followed the Bible word-for-word, then shaving, wearing clothes of more than one fabric, wearing gold or pearls, and eating shellfish is a sin, too. Don't want to offend anyone, just saying that this gay marriage fiasco is much ado about nothing. Raising a hubub against two legal adults getting married distracts from more pressing issues (hello, economy?)

Why do people insist on dictating each others lives? who cares!

Yikes, I don't know, comparing eating shrimp to the nature of the balance of male and female.

The media controls what we hear, for the most part. Being gay is not as "normal" as they want you to believe. It's a miniscule segment of society. Just like they convinced you that everybody is at risk for AIDS. As it turns out now, the leading health experts are now saying that AIDS is not a risk and is damaging the cause of much deadlier diseases, like cancer. Face it, gay people, most of us don't care if you have an ADDITIONAL right of marriage over the one we have. Forget the laws of religion, or society. Let's just follow the laws of biology. Gay isn't biologically normal.

When will homosexuals learn that the majority of society DOES NOT AGREE with their lifestyle choice??? The sad fucking part of it is...... All of their bitching, whining, and manipulation of our democratic system will eventually result in them getting their way - once again, the majority DOESN'T rule in this country - only the very loud and well funded minority.

#21 Jim - I'm not particularly religious either. But sometimes I wonder, who is going to be more disappointed, the #11 poster who obviously believes in God and then finds out when he dies that there isn't one, or you, the guy who badmouths it his whole life and then finds out there IS one?

1moreidiotintheworld you hit the nail on the head. There is a constant movement by cry-baby fringe groups who happen to have rich supporters constantly trying to subvert the will of the people. This type of ban passed in CALIFORNIA....TWICE. That should tell gays that their efforts to make them seem "just like everyone else" is not appreciated by the majority. Gays will NEVER be like normal people. Gays cannot biologically reproduce. If any other animal on the planet had this kind of "anti-reproduction" behavior they would be the focus of many studies and genetic experiments. Instead, the gay lifestyle is being forced on us like we're the ones who are abnormal.

I guess if you're going to stick your dicks in each others hairy asses, then you should be able to do it while married....

Give'em hell Mr. Sulu!!!

.

fucking homo's, get back in the closet. Bring back the good ol' days of gay bashing. Mathew Sheppard? Fuck that queer, he got what he deserved.

Homo's are naturally selected to be fucking killed.

Kari,

Typical liberal. Use a couple of big words and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a flat-earth, wife beating caveman. Just deal with it: Every state in which these kinds of tradition protecting measures have been up for a vote they have passed. Gays need to know their limits. What you do in your house is your business, but when you make a mockery of marriage and religion, you damage the entire fabric of society. That Miller Beer sponsored poster (of some gay event in SF, I can't keep up with all of them) of Jesus and the 12 disciples dressed in leather bondage gear is more proof of the radical homo agenda, WHICH DOES EXIST. Dressing up like freaks and/or genitalia in your parades isn't really helping the cause either.

#30) iIm gay. Come give it a shot. Let's see which one of us ends up in the hospital.

(hint: it won't be me)

What about Islam? You Hollywood pussies wouldn't DARE make a video mocking Islam's view of homosexuality. I guess it's in vogue to pick on Christians.

I can't wait for the down economy to start hitting Hollywood in the pocketbook.

I have asked these questions before, and no one can answer me.

1 - Where in the bible does it says being gay is a sin? Specific verse and chapter please.

2 - Homophobia is a fear of homosexuality. Just because I don't like it, doesnt make me afraid of it. So why call everyone who disagrees with homosexuality a homophobe?

I have asked these questions before, and no one can answer me.

1 - Where in the bible does it says being gay is a sin? Specific verse and chapter please.

2 - Homophobia is a fear of homosexuality. Just because I don't like it, doesnt make me afraid of it. So why call everyone who disagrees with homosexuality a homophobe?

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear
OMG whats up wit calling everyone that voted 4 prop 8 hateful? Hey no one wants gays 2 die, people just disagree with them getting married.. I love gays i pour a little gay into my outfits daily, everyone appreciates gays a lot of them are responsible for the creativity we see on tv, fashion, and interior design (disclaimer: gays do more than creative occupations but these are my favs) so hey don't claim everyone is hateful b/c they don't agree besides some of my gay friends don't agree with gay marriage. do they hate themselves?

If a father and a daughter wanted to get married I wouldn't hate them I just don't agree. What if someone wants to marry 1,000 women should he be able to do that too. Its a WIGGLE-ly (WIGGLE BEAR!!!) situation when the definition of marriage is up for grabs. If gays can marry then the incest, polygamist, and bestiality people should be allowed to also.... like some of the people reasoned hey its their life okay well we still live in a democracy and the people voted respect majority rules.... if it was the other way around we should respect it or move somewhere that agrees with our way of life. No hate necessary!.... no with out further 2 do.....
wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

I'm just glad to see Andy Richter found work.
We miss you Andy!

How does letting two men get married lead to having to allow someone to marry his dog? What silly reasoning.

And yes, the defintion of marriage is up for grabs. Lets redefine it.

Marriage = joining of two people.

Seems pretty easy to me.

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear
People who want gays 2 die r really stupid maybe they need 2 die... sorry wiggle bear got mad jk NO ONE DIE!!!!!

ne who # 35 ben
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
ur lazy all u had 2 do was google it non wiggle!

and #27 U WIGGLE!!!! good point!
wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

gay people are a genetic result of overpopulation. Let them do whatever they want, as long as they cant reproduce. But, if they get out of hand they should be beaten 60's style like the negros were

Ben, FYI

The most common verse is Leviticus 18:22, but there are others.

And I agree with point 2. It's just the typical name calling when liberals cannot rationally support an argument.

Ok Wiggle bear - so it is up to you to stop everyone from having gay sex, drinking, working on Sundays and eating rabbit and shellfish.

Stop being lazy, go save the world from God's wrath.

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear
#38
U didn't comment on the only 2! What about a daughter and a father or a mom and a son or hey a whole family wants 2 marry each other. Why only two people? If u don't understand when you change the definition of marriage everyone is going 2 want to get in on the action. Whats wrong with some one getting married 2 a dog? If there are no standards in our country then lets be completely open... Why do you HATE people who want to marry animals?? Gosh ur soo hateful... Ne who if you can't understand that maybe ur the silly one. When the definition changes it opens a wiggle that we will wish was never opened. I don't think that religion should be people's only reasoning b/c some people don't believe in God at all. Wiggle bear doesn't like you!
wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

Bringing up Lev in any religious argument is not a good idea.

I am Canadian, I am gonna buy some American slaves, it's allowed, according to Leviticus.

"'As for your male and your female slaves, whom you may have; of the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear
Actually #42 Ben someone asked for the bible verses, that was my reason behind putting them up there, DUH! Wiggle on u Ben 4 not reading maybe a little wiggle can loosen you up!
wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

Wiggle, you are annoying. I would continue this conversation, but you are quite obviously retarded. Talking to you is like banging my head against the wall, the only way it will feel good is when I stop.

Call your parents, tell them you are gay. Come out of the closet. You are protesting too much. It's ok.

wiggle bear, you are an odd bird my friend, but I agree with you. My position is the same, for the gays it isn't about being equal so much as having what they want. If they were asking for equality it would cover incest and multiple partners as well when defining legal marriages. But no one is asking for EQUAL, they are demanding what they want plain and simple.

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear
Duh i have way 2 much free time on my hands (fyi i'm procrastinating i really need 2 study for my exams) and i'm a total wiggle... who cares thats so obvious but when ur having an argument and u bow out that means... U LOSE. OOOO U JUST GOT WIGGLED PUNK! hey u can't even respond 2 the logical arguments. Guess some people can't wiggle with the wiggle bear! LET THAT B A LESSON 2 ALL OF U.. IF U WIGGLE WITH THE WIGGLE BEAR UR GOING DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Benny GAME OVER
wiggle bear out (omg i am sooo cool! YESSSSS)
wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

THIS IS SO AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! SO TRUE ABOUT PICKING AND CHOOSING BIBLE VERSES TO FOLLOW!!!

@33 That would be because it's not Islamic doctrine imposing itself on our government, you nitwit.

@11 The bible "really says" what is mentioned in the video, it's just a fun passtime for christians to cull the scripture they dislike and highlight the scripture that suits their druthers.

@26: They're aware, just as women were aware that the "majority of the country" opposed their getting the vote. Welcome to America, where you work to change people's minds.

@25: Homosexuality is found in the wild, you toerag. Learn some basics about natural science before you waste more oxygen. What kills me is well over 60% of blind-faith drones use this argument and it is flat-out-wrong.

Obama said he is against gay marriage so that's good enough for me. His word is the ultimate authority on everything, so just stop your whining.

The No on Prop 8 people lost, so there's no problem with them doing this and trying to win the issue next time, that's democracy. But don't demonize people who don't agree with you. If it was just a religious fringe then they wouldn't have won by such a huge margin.

I agree

Also I think all black browns tan and so on shouldn't be married are have any rights.

Woman shouldn't be able to vote are do anything in this "mans" world

Any person with a religion other than Christianity should have any rights to do anything.

etc.....

Let me recap... Unless your white straight Godly male American you shouldn't be able to do anything unless I OK; I being white male America.

By they way Segregation is against the law which would make the "State government" of California breaking federal law. So I wish everyone would just shut up and that the Supreme court would just rule on this shit once and for all instead of breaking the law they are supposed to uphold.

Looks like he's been keeping all those loaves and fishes for himself.

HAHA, that was some funny shit

#50, are you using examples from the wild to prove that acts committed by humans are "normal"? Because animals do it too right? Well, animals eat their own poop and eat their own babies. So go right ahead, use that example. Doofus.

Face it #50, it's quite evident by just taking a peek down at your genitalia that female parts and male parts were biologically designed to be diametrically opposed in order to create human offspring. It's also quite evident that hairy a$$holes were designed primarily for pushing out turdular loaves. Has nothing to do with religion, or with morals, or with law. It has to do with basic rules of nature. And, do animals engage in homosexuality? Maybe they do. But, they are not intelligent. They may not now the difference between the vaj-pie of a female and the tight, hairy anal-crevice of the other male they are plundering. Face the facts, gay is NOT normal. It is OUTSIDE the norm.

It also says in the Bible that only 12,000 people from the 12 tribes of Israel get to go to heaven for a grand total of 144,00 people those people being Jewish too.

word for word I believe it say one hundred and four and four thousand of the chosen will be let fourth before the gates are sealed.

now = know

If that thing about fornicators, adulterers, drunkards, covetous, and revilers not getting into heaven is true, I'm TOTALLY screwed. :(

Homosexuality is not "normal" but saying two people can't get married when you let everyone else no matter color and all that jazz do so isn't right. In America it should be all are nothing not picking and choosing who you give rights too.

@25:

"the leading health experts are now saying that AIDS is not a risk."

Wow, you are one special batch of stupid all on your own, aren't you?

And to everyone else: STOP using the King James Bible - written hundreds of years ago - as some kind of rule book that is still relevant today. I manage to live a very 'christian' style life without believing at all in any God, and I don't give a rat's ass what gay people do with their lives as long as they contribute poisitively to society like I do.

And I just saw a comedy show which starred a black guy who's been on television for almost 30 years; guess what 75% of his show was about: yes, being BLACK. Of the 4 other comedians on the bill, the 3 white guys just told funny jokes and the Iranian woman spent 15 minutes gagging it up about being Iranian. And a woman.

As long as minority aspects or differences are worn on your sleeves and pushed down everyone's throats, you're just going to get resistance about it. You should all get on with your lives as human beings first and foremost - and black/gay/female/foreign/whatever second.

#61 - do you even read/watch the news? It was literally in the news this very last week that the American Cancer Society and lead cancer researchers were stating, with clarity, that AIDS is NOT an epidemic outside of key African countries and that the amount of attention it gets due to celebrity spokespersons and media coverage is lopsided. Face the facts, unless you are engaging in unprotected, gay sex and/or sharing needles, you are very unlikely to be inflicted with HIV/AIDS. And go ahead, trot out the <1% of those heteros who get it through sex as your example that refutes the rule.

I agree with Wigglebear, although their delivery is odd. Beastiality, pedophilia, incest, polygamy anything other than man/woman should also be accepted if gay marriage is accepted.

Actually more precisely to #34's comments, homophobia is a fear of human beings (from that long lost latin language)..... they need to find a new catch phrase to label us. And agreed, just because we disagree with something doesn't make us the conventional sense of the word homophobic. I'm not afraid of them in the slightest ..... well maybe that one 85 year old dude I saw in the parade a few years back that was wearing white spandex wrestling outfit with his chihuahua on a pink studded leash. Damn, I could see what he had for breakfast .... yeah I was a little 'phobic' of that guy.

Actually, it's not a "political endorsement". No candidate is mentioned. So post away.

Homosexuality is a psychological disease. And it was classified as such until we got all those treehugging pinko commie liberal fags in our government back in the 60's and 70's and started forcing all this PC liberal bullshit on us.

God created AIDS to rid us of all the fags and all the negros. Fags and coons aren't meant to survive, they've been genetically selected for extinction. And if the gov't would just leave them alone, they'd just die off and be done with.

Look at Africa, if the US/UN left it alone, all the porch monkeys over there would be dead inside of a couple years, either by AIDS or by killing each other.
So take LA, NYC, DET or any other urban setting that has been utterly destroyed by black people, if the gov't just closed those cities off, all the darkies would just kill each other within a year, and then the white people could go back in, and rebuild those cities into the once proud mecca's they once were.

So all you homos and tar-babies out there, be glad for all those PC commie pinko liberal asswipes in DC because without them you'd be fucking dead, where you belong

lol, all these delusional dorks and their fairy tales about magical, invisible friends and such. these people need to be put into insane asylums. perhaps we should put that to a vote instead. ah, what a wonderful world it would be without these crazies.

The most intelligent thing I've ever seen on this site. Thank you.

I'm tired of the hate, bigotry, and intolerance coming from the liberal secular "progressives" jamming their asshattery down my throat. I fully support the gay community in their search for peace to live their lives they way they want, but this is going too far. Keep your deviant sexual shenanigans in the bedroom and out of my school, my home, my TV, my church, and my community. I'm all for gay couples having the same rights and benefits as heterosexual couples and I'll vote for that anytime without a second though. But not the redefinition of marriage.

Practice what you preach and quit the hate.

@51 Huge margin? Try 'skin of its teeth'. The bill squeaked by so close they had to manually count ballots. Don't go acting as though they won by more than 51% of the vote, cuz they didn't.

And the rest of the arguments here are the same tired hilariously bad arguments I've watched go by for the last 20+ years.

And for the record: SEVERAL International studies have been conducted that pretty much prove that people who react aggressively/violently to homosexuals actually are turned on by homosexual imagery and stimulus, despite all the protests and screaming and shouting that they are disgusted by gay people. Thus it's pretty much their own fear and self-loathing. Therefore: Homo (same) Phobe (fear). They are afraid of their own inner queer and therefore must project that fear onto others and attack them.

It's okay tho, someday all those closet cases (like 66 up there) will be able to admit that they like the cawk too. It must SUCK being so back in the closet you can see Narnia tho.

Come on out, admit you love dick, you'll be happier for it!

1 Tim. 2:12 Woman not permitted to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.

I Timothy 8-15... and you can't have braided hair or wear gold or pearls or expensive clothes ... you are not permitted to teach or to have authority over a man; you must shut the f*Ck up ... because Adam was not the deceiver EVE was, so because of that the only way you lying blathces can be saved is if you have children ... so until then shut the hell up.

It's cool to pick and choose what you want from the Good Book ain't it y'all?

Ummm, using religious arguments/Biblical references, verses, etc. is only applicable amongst the people who BELIEVE in it and/or consider it an authority. We're not a theocracy here in the USA...it's called separation of church and state, numb cunts. And just because something was agreed upon by a majority doesn't make it right. 200 years ago the majority of Americans believed slavery was right...100 years ago women couldn't vote...50 years ago black and white children couldn't go to the same school in some states...Alabama had miscegenation laws on their books until 1998. And so on and so forth. We should be concerned with protecting the minority, which is why we have the Supreme Court and a constitution proclaiming equal rights for all.

I want someone to answer, without using an argument based on or influenced by religion, how gay people marrying each other will affect them personally. PERSONALLY being the key word. Saying, "well, I think it's gross!" really doesn't count, not when there are some fucking disgusting people of the heterosexual variety bumping uglies in legally wedded bliss on a regular basis, whom we NEVER have to see, thank goodness. So really, how will it affect YOU, how will it take away your rights?

even with all the disgusting fags , queers, fairy's, dykes and all the other miscreants in California, Prop 8 still passed!!!

Get over it homo's, you're not wanted in the church, and that's where the term MARRIAGE comes from, it's a religious thing. And since god hates all you fucking cocksuckers and carpetmunchers, you can't come in!!!!

Wonder if there are any skits railing against the dark-skinned folks who voted OVERWHELMINGLY for ME and Prop 8.

I find it funny that I won a mandate with barely 52% of the vote, but Prop 8 needs to be overturned by the courts...

Guess "the will of the people" is subject to political correctness as well. More bullshit from the chattering classes.

@66 I have no doubt the ATF is surrounding your compound as I type. I wish you and your militia luck in the standoff.. Let your rally cry be "Remember Waco!" nutjob.

I like to wiggle my wiggle throat down onto a wiggle wiggle bear cock

BTW...someone tell Melissa Etheridge that if she tries to withhold her taxes from my Evil Empire, I will hunt her carpet-munching ass down!!

All praise to me, the Big O!!

If all the homos in the world and all the porch monkeys in the world were put together on an island, they'd all be dead in a year. They'd all die of aids, drugs, or kill each other.

God has selected homo's and coons for extinction. They are mistakes, and they need to be removed from society.

Sen. Robert Byrd (D) West Virginia - (former head of KKK and loved by millions of Negros and brainwashed Liberal fucking retards.)

I have a gay sibling so fuck prop 8. stupid stupid thing to come up with don't judge other people by the way they are born and whom they love. Don't judge at all.

I have a gay sibling so fuck prop 8. stupid stupid thing to come up with don't judge other people by the way they are born and whom they love. Don't judge at all.

I just wish that if they didn't want to be judged, they wouldn't judge others. I don't oppose gay marriage. I am a Christian. I feel that attacking religion because they think they are above it really makes me angrier. (not at gays, but at pig-headed celebrities, and those liberals who I hear say this crap). The best way to win is with love, not more hate. I'm just so diappointed and insulted. I just wish people were more educated before they open their mouths and make a mockery of others.

John C Reilly is the man.

#73 - in response to your question regarding how gay marriage would negatively affect ME, personally: It would affect me personally because I am an American and I believe that we all have a basic set of human rights and that when we start issuing special and additional rights, it will damage what was laid down as a foundation for the formation of this country. So, we let gay marriage slip through due to PC pressure. Then, later, somebody wants polygamy. Then, somebody wants the right to marry somebody under the legal age. The number of special case rights that could be contrived for this special interest group or that could go on and on. For gays, it seems unfathomable that the vast majority of us don't support same-sex marriage. Get over it. It's going to be that way for several generations to come.

@82 Celebrities aren't attacking religion, they are defending people who the "religious" have chosen to attack. Gay marriage is a civil rights issue, masked in hatred and fear.

#73, and let's not even get into the issue of children of gay marriages. Most of us out here agree that it is unfair to assume that a child WANTS to be raised by a set of gay, married parents. Not for moral or religious reasons, but because biology intended the male-female bond to develop a certain way and every child should be given the opportunity to be raised by a male and female.

You have beef with the production values?

Geez people! Tons of biggots reading the sup... Live and let live people. Who cares about what the bibble says, I don´t live my life based on what a book written ages ago says, most of all if you are reading it and understanding whatever YOU want to understand and suits you best. I'm not a christian (or part of any religious anything) but according to them Jesus was a forgiving and understanding person who tought about tolerance and love for one another... I don't think he'd be happy with some of the comments here. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... meaning, don't fucking judge other people cos I bet you have some pretty awfull skeletons in your closet, I do.
About gay marriage... let's start by saying that marriage is NOT the sacred institution it used to be, people get in and out of marriage as if they were changing channels, are you telling me that is less disrespectful to the institution than marriage between same sex people, don't think so. Most people don't even believe in marriage anymore.. so FUCK IT! let them marry if they want to, at least somebody still believes in that shit. But I don't think it is a question of religion or stuff like that, religion should have no saying in matters of state and law, it is a question of civil rights and whether or not gay people should have the same rights as the rest of us. Of course they should! They are people, just like us and as a matter of fact I can think of millions of straight people that should not have been allowed to marry or even have kids. We are all the same people, get over it!

I am 100% for the same governmental rights for all people. Everyone should have the same civil rights, gays, straights, whatever.

As someone living in a country founded on the belief that people have the right to follow whatever religion they chose, I take issue with government dictating what aspects of religion are "right" and "wrong".

Marriage is a religious sacrament for those that believe in that religious sacrament. If you don't believe in it, you don't get married, you get a civil union.

THAT is what prop 8 should really be about.

I think people that want to kill people based on the fact that they have a different life style or they are dark is really pathetic and make everyone that is for prop 8 look like a garbage!

#66 go ahead and add a 6 on the end of that b/c ur not reflecting Jesus in any way!

I don't think its fair to say that people that disagree are judging or want to kill gays. Everyone does something that other people may not like but the point is if gay marriage is okay why isn't every marriage okay? I really want to know that answer. What is wrong with polygamist b/c they are in love and just want to be happy how does that affect all of us? How is a man getting married to a horse or getting married to a 10 year old affecting us? If the marriage laws change then it should be open for whoever decides to make a commitment with anyone or thing they can. The End But y is it fair for other people to decide that polygamy is wrong but homosexuality isn't? Someone please answer that!

#88 Alex I agree with you that marriage isn't sacred anymore the divorce rate is insane. I also think its unfair to bring the bible aspect into it b/c not everyone is a christian or do the laws of the bible influence their life in any way but do you also agree with a law that allows polygamist marriage rights?

#36 wiggle bear is a creepy genius!!!!! lmao I think wiggle bear is the offspring of a bear and a human which is why he/she is for bestiality marriage

I love how giving gay people the same rights as straight people is "making an exception."

I love how the majority feels the need to be protected from the minority.

I love how half of all marriages fail, but people still call it a binding and religious committment.

The fact of the matter is that Marriage has two definitions in this nation, though we refuse to see it. There's the legal definition, wherein a spouse is entitled to inheritances and changes the tax bracket. There's also the religious definition, which is two people cleaving to each other in the sight of God. To deny people rights under our system of law is criminal. We do it, though, because of a religiously charged word.

Look, the government cannot step into your church and force it to recognise same-sex marriage. Really, this doesn't involve your church at all. It's about legal definitions, and rights that our states are denying their citizens. Living deep in the bible belt, I can see how Prop 8 passed, however, as a believer in equality, I see the need for the Supreme Court to step in to once again protect a minority.

So I guess this is the winning entry for the Monty Python gift set.

#83 You got an Amen to that.

A point by point rebuttal in a celebrity gossip comments thread may be an exercise in futility, but here goes...

#15 I agree. 'No On 8' thought they were reasonably safe so didn't fight hard enough before the vote. There were articles and opinion pieces at the time that 'No On 8' had to be more direct with it's advertising.
Meanwhile, 'Yes On 8' got angry, organised, and seized on some really effective themes - "Won't Somebody Please Think of the Children" FTW.

#17 But Rob was talking about the campaign, not the vote.

#21 Not helping.

#24 We're not comparing the two, we're examining the assumption that if it's the bible, we must obey it - Christian or otherwise.

#25 yes, homosexuality is not "normal" in the sense that only a small proportion of the population identify as such. So are left-handers, who have just about as much say in whether they will be left-handed, and just as much effect on the rights of everyone around them. Just because their aren't that many of them shouldn't mean they are denied human rights.

And the AIDS issue is irrelevent to this debate.

#26 When will the homophobes (and yes, I'm using that term for want of a better word) learn that the right for gay people to marry the person they love will not effect the "majority" AT ALL?

#28 "Gays will NEVER be like normal people. Gays cannot biologically reproduce." When are you going to start a campaign denying infertile straight people the right to marry? And yes, there is plenty of homosexual behaviour observed in the animal kingdom - check out the Wikipedia article on "Homosexual behavior in animals" (Yeah, I know, Wikipedia, but it's a good overview and well-referenced).

#31 The fact that these "protecting measures" get democratically passed doesn't make them right - the most common counter-example being previous laws against interracial marriages. Most of these had to be overturned by the courts 'cos the democratic majority wasn't going to.

"Gays need to know their limits. What you do in your house is your business, but when you make a mockery of marriage and religion, you damage the entire fabric of society." So you have no problem with gay relationships, but you think they would "make a mockery of marriage"? Please explain.

Finally, I'm sure I could find an image produced by a fundamentalist Christian group that most people on this thread would find braindead and distasteful, and use that to condemn the entire Christian religion as having a "radical agenda" - but that wouldn't be fair now, would it?

#33 This comparison is pointless because there isn't a concerted and very public campaign from Islam groups for Prop 8. It's "in vogue" to criticise the support behind Prop 8 if you don't agree with it.

#36 A good demonstration of the song, actually -"Now you wish we'd all shut up" / "But make our clothes and fix our hair."

And I'll adress the "slippery slope" argument that comes up so often here - that gay marriages will lead to incestual, bestial, child, polygamous marriages, etc. Let's address all of these: incest causes genetic abnormalities, so is banned largely for health reasons; marriages to animals or children can nver be truly consensual, so can never be allowed as a legal contract; polygamy is the only relationship form where it can potentially be a healthy, functioning relationship between consensual adults (although is cetainly not always - most of the institutionalised forms of polygamy practiced today give one man far too much power over a group of subservient women). In fact, it is most similar to homosexuality in that it is not currently illegal to have sex with multiple partners or live in non-legally recognised cohabiting relationships. However, any legal arrangement would have to be different from marriage, as a contract between more than two people would be fundamentally different (and much more complicated). There are strong arguments to be made about all these kinds of marriages that simply don't apply to homosexual couples.

#39 "1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Interesting - I didn't realise that even merely "effeminate" men were ungodly. Them queers really are screwed, ain't they?

#55, I think #50 really meant to direct their comment to #28 re: homosexuality not found in the natural world, therefore not natural.

#70 The "homophobes as repressed homophobics" is over-simplistic. Many people simply feel uncomfortable with gay people because that is the way they were socialised. Surely we can have some sympathy with Christians who are simply trying to follow what they believe to be God's word, for example? Aggressive people socialised to think homosexuality is wrong can be expected to respond aggresively to homosexuals, without all of them being closet fairies.

#74 If the argument against gay marriage is because marriage is a Christian ceremony and homosexuality is not acceptable within that belief system, why are athiests, agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, buddhists etc allowed to marry? Surely the logical conclusion to this argument is that the legal contract component of marriage becomes a civil union for eveyone, and then you can have the Christian marriage if that is what you believe in? Fundamentally, marriage in the United States does not have to have anything to do with religion at all - unless you want to redefine it. But the redefinition should surely cover all non-Christians, rather than homosexuals?

#84 You have responded to a query about how gay marriage will effect you by making the slippery slope argument. As I outlined above, all these other forms of marriage are easily refutable. Stick to the subject - how will gay people being allowed to get married effect you personally?

Hilarious how you frame this as a defence of the importance of equal rights.

#86 What a bizarre argument -gay people should not get married because their children would not want to be born to them. Children probably don't want to be born to teen drug addicts, violent parents, narrowminded bigots, or many other potential parents who are more likely to deny them opportunities. This argument also suggests that all mothers bring some fundamental "feminine" qualities to the parental pair, while all fathers bring fundamental "masculine" qualities. Straight women and men are not that homogenous, and every individual couple brings different strengths and weaknesses to parenthood. The real problem for children of gay couples is the prejudice they face from (often well-meaning) others.

Also, making arguments based on the fact we should be dictated to by biology is a bit rich in this day and age - for example, according to biology I probably shouldn't have reached the age I am now as I have very poor eyesight. Corrective lenses are just one of the modern technologies, medicines, social institutions, etc, that we use to defy our biological limitations every day.

Yay, I fixed teh internet!

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

Dear Amy,

Since you are so keen on correcting everyone read my post one more fucking time. I merely put the bible verse up here b/c that little cry baby benny bitch asked for them. I do not think verses are the only reason to oppose gay marriage. I do not feel that gay marriage will lead to all of the different things i mention i merely feel that it isn't equality for all and that's what there argument is suppose to be about. Also incest happens all the time and there are many case where a product of incest has no health conditions. Even if the child were born with health conditions how is it better than a crack head AIDs victim or a woman with herpes giving her child a disease? How does that have ne thing 2 do with u? What if they promise not to have children... get where i'm going hun? Next ur prob right on bestiality but who is to say animals want to be adopted (hold them captive) anyway, people still do it all the time some say animals want to live in the wild and never deal with humans at all...so y not force them into marriage once again how would that change the way u live ur life? Next under age marriage- in some countries girls get married as soon as their period starts (sand people age 10-16) so who is to say that she can not consent to a marriage. Children should have the same rights as everyone else or are we picking and choosing who can have rights now??? yes my whole point is to show everyone : y should we continue to loosen standards? lets just get rid of them alll. U still didn't explain how incest, polygamy, underage marriage, and bestiality would effect you??? How would it b/c i'm the only product of bestiality every recorded in the history of the world
with wiggle,
wiggle bear
p.s. don't act like i want all gays to shut up... i think its right when people protest for what they believe in no matter what it is.

#77 o and fake wiggle bear:
U can't even come up with a sound argument! lol u talk about oral sex like its a bad thing..... wtf ?!

#67 2 the guy that doesn't like crazy people, fairy tales, and magical creatures
get over it wiggle bear is here 2 stay! In fact i'm going 2 b n ur dreams 2night see ya then!!!!! o and if u wanna vote 2 put crazy people in asylums then i respect that 2 b/c majority rules!
wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

#41 - When Christians "rationally support an argument", they quote the bible. That is not an argument nor is it rational. And in all seriousness, everyone calls names, but I've never seen anyone get more ugly than a white uneducated conservative. THE biggest name callers out there with, of course, their "argument" of choice being racial slurs.

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics... even if you win, you're still retarded!

#97

ur really mean everyone that enters in the special Olympics is a winner!!!!
but i get ur point arguing on the internet is pretty lame
but it sure does beat tv and it gives u a new outlook on life sometimes
Hey i wanna give all of the supporters and non supporters and racist and crazy people a round of applause! Its been fun! thank u for the show!

Filthy homosexuals use the same tired playbook of arguments, do you "people" circulate a pamphlet or something. Of course moron christians do as well but rationale people understand homosexuality is a mental perversion, nothing more nor less. Homosexuality IS in the animal kingdom, as queers often note, but they forget that it is ALWAYS in the genetically inferior of the species. Most Zoological studies theorize this is natures way to cull the herd for species that lack predators and/or over breeding. No doubt that applies to human beings as well. That does not mean we embrace mental perversion/genetic rejects. Pity them, yes, study them perhaps, marry them, no. They can attain whatever rights they wish through legal channels quite easily, power of attorney, form a corporation between individuals. They of course are not interested in rights, as they sometimes slip up and admit. They want this to appear NORMAL. They aren't. Never will be. Have a nice day.

Wiggle Bear, I'm not saying that people should be able to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't effect me (I'm not that selfish, unlike those who want to take away the rights of others). I'm saying:

a) that people who complain that gay marriage would take away their own rights don't have much of a leg to stand on, and

b) I think the two things that define marriage are 1) consent and 2) contract between a couple. I think we can agree on that basic definition before we start adding more restrictions.

You asked what's to stop other forms of relationships from being legally recognised in marriage, I set out those reasons to you. You can't then say that gay marriage can't be acceptable because there are arguments in favour of all those forms (although many of those arguments are very tenuous indeed, and I'm sure in most murder cases you could come up with at least argument in favour of the crime, it would just pale in comparison to the many, many reasons such an act is reprehensible). The legal, social and medical arguments against all of them outweigh any possible benefit in allowing them - the same thing can't be said about gay marriage. And remember, people said the same thing about allowing interracial marriages several decades ago.

You also set up a strawman by saying you don't necessarily think those relationship forms will get recognised, but "that it isn't equality for all and that's what there argument is suppose to be about." I have not seen one person opposed to Prop 8 call for those other forms to be legally recognised, and the quest for them would not be one for equality - as I said above, most of those relationships are inherently inequal.

Sure a crackhead AIDS victim or woman with herpes isn't the ideal person to give birth to a baby, but the health risks are not created by the very union that is supposed to bring safety and stability to a child. And while there are indeed perfectly normal babies born to incestuous couples, there are is a high enough level of risk that it outweighs the possibilities the offspring may be perfectly fine (and the genetic problems may very well not manifest until the product of the incestuous union procreates).

Why would granting the rights of consenting adults to enter into homosexual unions lead to erosion of the age of consent? That really does not logically follow. Nor does 'we keep animals in cages so we should logically be able to have sex with them.'

I never criticised you for posting the Bible verses, I know that they were posted in response to someone else's query, and I commend you for taking the time to contribute. I simply found it interesting that "effeminite" by itself is considered ungodly - this is no comment on you or your opinions.

Of course, the separation of church and state makes any amount of Bible verses irrelevent to the subject. As I said above, until you insist that "marriage" is strictly for Christians only, religion has no place in the debate.

I love how gay marriage somehow leads to beastiality, incest, and paedophilia. Gay marriage is a marriage like any other - between two consenting, of age, unrelated adults.

OMG, people need to shut the hell up. Sometimes I wish free speech wasn't an American right because some of you people are stupid as fuck!

Viva gay marriage! (oh, and children of gay parents are happier than those of straight parents, assholes!)

I like turtles.

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

Dear Amy,
It appears u r not an evil stupid bitch after all! he he Unfortunately we must agree to disagree b/c this debate is becoming completely redundant.
I respect your position and i think that it is quite sad that people are spreading hate b/c whether or not u support prop 8 or not we are all humans and we should respect each other.
that said...
u must understand that comparing gay marriage to ill treatment of blacks is codswallop! sexuality is an action that people choose to partake in race is not! (no i am not arguing whether people choose to be gay, i am obvious just comparing the act of having sex) This is faulty reasoning!
1. a contract between a couple 2. consent
why a couple? What makes the perfect number two? (this is a serious question?)

Also when I responded with the age of consent I wasn't implying that gay marriage will lead to lower the age of consent i was referring to another group of people that cannot legally get married, that is discrimination. I believe all forms of discrimination should be avoided. Gays are asking for equality so I am asking do you agree with equality for everyone or just for homosexuals? So some may not be asking for equality for all but that is my argument why not grant equality for all? I know whenever I read any fair act laws it includes age, disabilities, ethnicity, national origin, color, race, and sex.

#101 why? why are you being hateful against other groups of minorities that want to enjoy a life together without you judging them? Why are these groups considered sick and disgusting but homosexuals aren't?

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

To anyone posting in favor of prop 8 here, on the Superficial:

Gay marriage is sinful in the eyes of God, but reading and commenting on a blog whose content is generally offensive, sexually explicit, and frequently features nip slips is A-OK?

Yes, please, cast the first stone.

Wiggle Bear: The marriage contract is designed for two people in terms of the rights and responsibilities you have, both in marriage and divorce if it should happen to come to that. Things would get much more complicated with more people, and would require a different kind of contract. The responsibility of any one partner to a polygamous union is also diluted, so it really wouldn't have the strength that mariage between a couple has.

"u must understand that comparing gay marriage to ill treatment of blacks is codswallop! sexuality is an action that people choose to partake in race is not! (no i am not arguing whether people choose to be gay, i am obvious just comparing the act of having sex)". The interesting thing here is that the thing you currently have choice in - whether or not to engage in same-sex sexual activity - is legal, but the fundamental issue you don't have much choice about - attraction to people of the same sex on an emotional as well as sexual level - is the issue being denied. This is where we often hear the argument "Gay people have the same rights as everyone else - they can get married to someone of the opposite sex, just like the rest of us." But we live in a society where marriage is based (one hopes!) on love, and that is what we are fundamentally denying people - the right to enter into the most highly treasured union our society values with the person that they love. I'm sure that we can agree that marriage is about more than sex.

"I know whenever I read any fair act laws it includes age, disabilities, ethnicity, national origin, color, race, and sex. " If only we could allow gay marriage, all those areas of possible discrimination would be covered (except age, where the issue is whether informed consent can truly be given. This isn't unique to the decision to get married, of course, which is why I phrased it as an age of consent issue).

wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

Okay this is my last post on this issue i promise:
Dear Amy,
At 13 years old i was well aware of what marriage was all about and capable of informed consent.

[ In wiggletopia, a wiggle bear is allowed to marry once her/his fur has completely covered his/her body. which is approximately 10-15.]

How is it ur (or the gov't) decision to decide whether they are old enough to consent? Is there a mind test they tells us whether or not they truly understand? If they are old enough to consent to an abortion why not marriage?

You pick and choose. you have justified that other minority groups are not allowed b/c of health reasons, consent factors, and that polygamist are 2 difficult to define. But isn't it there decision to make? We are not arguing whether or not it would be easy or there marriages are practical or logical we are arguing equality. Or at least thats my argument, I think we are arguing two different points btw

Equality should be given to all regardless of health hazards, difficulty, and consequential factors, yes this is extreme ideology but who is to say homosexuality is right but all others are wrong. If there is no higher authority then who gets to decide what is right and what is wrong? In my book, not you, not the gov't not anyone except the people, animals, or feces that enter into the contract.

Forget marriage what is the point just live together and promise to stay together b/c we all know no marriage works out

anyway wi wi wi wol (wiggle out loud)(for those that understand wiggle bear humor you are free to have a wiggle pie, my treat, if not then you are free to have a wiggle die, also my treat!)

with wiggle,

wiggle bear

p.s. i really like u Amy, but i'm sorry we can't arguing any more b/c we aren't arguing the same points and we are being redundant. I'm sorry for annoying everyone today. Have a great wiggle! One day i hope extremist can rule the world and there will be no laws 2 govern any of us! This will make us all happy and have the perfect lives! like the ones that wiggle bears in wiggletopia live!

p.s.s
I apologize for any fallacies or errors, b/c u know extremist tend to do that! also Thank u for arguing with a complete lunatic!!!!

4 the last time wiggle bear out (its always cooler the second time... YES!!!)
wiggle bear, wiggle bear, wiggle bear

Amy & Roxy - and let's not forget that the left hand is "evil" (Matthew 25:31-34, 41 et cetera). Why Americans as a society pick & chose homosexuality to be the most evil of listed sins [personally I think women teachers (1 Timothy 2:11-12) should rank up there] is beyond me.

The whole "will of the people" referring to the vote is pretty bogus. It shouldn't have been a voteable issue. That would be like having a public vote and decide to make homosexuality illegal. Or voting to remove property rights from married women. Hey you can stay single and still own stuff but if you're married all your stuff is HIS :)

You can't just one week say it's ok for gays to marry and then take it away the next week because a larger group of people who don't belong to the effected group decided that is how they wanted other people to live their lives.

How can you say civil unions (without a church) are legal and homosexuality is legal yet you can't have a homosexual marriage because it's immoral & religiously offensive?

Love the video !!! & Love my gay neighbors. :)

If we are to protect the "sanctity of marriage," we should also probably pass a prop that outlaw's divorce.

Right so I didn't read hardly any of this, I just scanned at all the Bible verses and laughed. I'm gay, and I'm a catechist for OCIC at my church, so I guess that I'm ruining it for everyone in my congregation with that whole "look not on your sins but on our faith as a church thing." At any rate, I thought I just found it interesting that so many of you all have Bibles with the word "homosexual" in it at all considering: "In the 1860s, an Austrian born Hungarian writer, Karl Maria Kertbeny, used the term 'homosexual' for the first time in Berlin in anthropological writings about people for whom same gender attraction defined their sexual orientation." I didn't realize the Bible you guys read was written in the 1860's when women, blacks, the poor, or even the elderly struggled with rights issues across the world. But it sure explains a lot...

Oh, and to 27 I believe it was that made me wonder, who do you think will be more sorry? Myself, the homosexual Sunday school teacher and social worker who gives hand over foot to my community and congregation, or the hate mongering individuals who encourage violence, beatings, murders, and ostracizing the minorities all under the false tiding of their own version of Christianity (Let's face it almost church to church the religion is different).

To kill a mockingbird all over again...

What´s wrong with you with bible? This is law, not everything has to be involved with religion. Just don´t go to the wedding if you don´t agrre with it, leave people alone with their decissions.

# 33 AMEN!

# 33 AMEN!

While no-one more vehemently opposes asinine political endorsements from celebrities (with the obvious exception of Mr. T.) than I, I had to admit that this wasn't as painfully asinine as I'd expected. It was actually mildly amusing. ... In the way that, you know, original musical productions staged at community colleges tend to be. And Allison Janney's skirt was pretty. And I had no idea that Neil Patrick Harris could sing. And so nicely, too! Turns out, you learn something everyday. (And, yeah, I'm PURPOSELY steering clear of the political bullshit. I didn't even make it as far as the election, as it was. For someone who loathes politics and the assholes who make their living in it as much as I do, this has been a TERRIBLY LONG year.)

... Jack Black was still far, FAR better as Jeepers Creepers Slacker Guy, though.

Can we all just get along and seriously solve this problem by fellatio? I mean honestly who doesn't get distracted from their hate spewing when they are getting a "wet willy" or "willy wet"? Whatever! you know what I mean. so when you feel all mean and racisty, just grab your girl or man or someone who looks like both and have them "step up to the mic". Trust me all your fears and hate will go away temporarily. Trust me I knowwwwww ooooohhhhhh! Whoo!

#53: "Looks like he's been keeping all those loaves and fishes for himself."

Hilarious! Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

Well, I think for me (as a serious and sincere Christian), seeing Christians cut-and-paste bible verses all over with reckless abandon is pretty trite. I applaud the intent (if it's done in love), but it's not very helpful.

One verse that I think needs to frame the entire discussion is Genesis 1:26 where it states God made humanity in His image: male and female.

Both men and women reflect (in different but beautiful ways) the image of God into the world. In that fusion of male and female (sexually speaking), the act expresses teh beauty and mystery of our divine heritage.

Parenthetically, that' s why I believe (as many posters have noted), child NEED to be raised by a mother and father, but men and women reflect to their children different aspects of God's character and nature, and to develop a sound and healthy self-image and God-image, children need the love, attention, affection and support that comes uniquely through both a male and female.

Well, I think for me (as a serious and sincere Christian), seeing Christians cut-and-paste bible verses all over with reckless abandon is pretty trite. I applaud the intent (if it's done in love), but it's not very helpful.

One verse that I think needs to frame the entire discussion is Genesis 1:26 where it states God made humanity in His image: male and female.

Both men and women reflect (in different but beautiful ways) the image of God into the world. In that fusion of male and female (sexually speaking), the act expresses teh beauty and mystery of our divine heritage.

Parenthetically, that' s why I believe (as many posters have noted), child NEED to be raised by a mother and father, but men and women reflect to their children different aspects of God's character and nature, and to develop a sound and healthy self-image and God-image, children need the love, attention, affection and support that comes uniquely through both a male and female.

I've tried to avoid engaging in religious arguments because they really are completely irrelevant to lawmaking in any society that isn't a theocracy. However, I'd like to respond to trying_to_be_thoughtful:

"One verse that I think needs to frame the entire discussion is Genesis 1:26 where it states God made humanity in His image: male and female."

My personal feeling on this is that WE created GOD in humanity's image. By this I'm certainly not suggesting there is no god - I'm currently atheist, but open to the idea that my life experience may change my beliefs in future - but that the god presented in the Christian Bible is clearly man's conception of God, and is therefore conceptualised as a sort of really big, really powerful human ruler. The conception also seems to be grounded in the accepted understanding of the universe around us at the time the Bible was written. Our increased knowledge of the vast universe makes it more difficult to believe that we have such a privileged place in the cosmos.

There are indeed arguments to be made that children do better when raised with a mother and a father, but a lot of the disadvantages in fact come, as I said above, from the prejudice children of gay couples face from (often well-meaning) others.

Perhaps even more importantly, there are already many, many children being raised by gay parents - often lost in the "Won't Somebody Please Think of the Children?!" argument is that denying gay marriage denies these children the security that the children of heterosexual unions gain through marriage.

Again, straight males and females aren't homogenous in the way that gender effects their parenting styles, and neither are gay parents. It is overly simplistic to say that children NEED a male and a female parent - what they need is "love, attention, affection and support", indeed. Also, this ignores the other family (by blood or otherwise) members who may play a role in the care and socialisation of children.

I appreciate your clarity and passion Amy, but I would strongly disagree with the assertion that "the god presented in the Christian Bible is clearly man's conception of God, and is therefore conceptualised as a sort of really big, really powerful human ruler." That is a uniquely Greek conception of god(s) (i.e. Zeus, Apollog, etc.). The ancient Jewish/Christian texts have always used metaphors when describing god as a way to ensure God's character and qualities are understood, but never fully comprehended (how could God be God if I could fully understand everything about God?)

The early chapters of Genesis have also been foundational to suppressed groups who are deemed (on whatever basis) as "sub-human". I think upon a more careful reading of Scripture you'll find that God is conceptualized as anything BUT a really big, really powerful human ruler, and that humans--all humans--are created by God for the good of the world.

And while it's an easy assertion, the idea that "religious arguments...are completely irrelevant to lawmaking in any society that isn't a theocracy" is a hard argument to make. All policies reflect some ultimate allegiance, some faith in someone or something that is considered by the group as worthy of trust and faith. There's no way to get around it. In a theocracy, what that "someone" or "something" is is just explicit and (usually) grounded in specific texts. But is Western culture all that different? I'd argue that we are a theocracy with our own "sacred texts"--all laws/policies are embedded with religious/faith foundations, whether or not we are aware of it or not.

Okay, biologically speaking, there isn't much use for body hair folks...so should we shun the particularly hirsute? People using biological arguments on either side are missing the point - WHY are we arguing over what two consenting adults are doing in their home? How does the bible have ANYTHING to do with homosexuality? If another fucknut uses the bible to say why homosexuality is wrong, I'm going to mail you a lump of shit (via UPS, of course - what can brown do for you?). The bible, if read literally, says women should be stoned to death if they are discovered to be not be a virgin. If you've ever gotten your "red wings," both you and your partner should be executed, according to the bible. WTF? So, STOP using this to persecute homosexuals!!! How exactly is this harming you? Isn't the "sanctity" of marriage being fucked up more by the mockery that is made of it by the straight people getting married for money, for sex, for everything BUT love? Explain to me, in detail, one of you anti-gay marriage people, how exactly this is destroying the fabric of your lives. Are you afraid some of their gayness will escape and infect you?

Trying_to_be_thoughtful, how can humans be said to be made in God's image if God is not conceptualised in some way in human terms (regardless of the direction of influence)?

"All policies reflect some ultimate allegiance, some faith in someone or something that is considered by the group as worthy of trust and faith." Laws should ideally be based on a consideration of the moral, ethical, social and physical effects they have (and yes, one can have a moral or ethical system that isn't based on theology). It is simply unfair to deny homosexual couples the right to marry based on religious doctrine. While you and many, many others may believe that "...men and women reflect to their children different aspects of God's character and nature, and to develop a sound and healthy self-image and God-image, children need the love, attention, affection and support that comes uniquely through both a male and female," but it's hard to justify that to those that don't believe in God. In the States, they are fully allowed not to believe in the Christian God, and not be discriminated against for their belief system. And again, this doesn't address the fact that there already thousands of children being raised by gay parents, just with more prejudice to deal with and without the legal protection that marriage would provide.

On a separate issue, that of homosexuality being biologically abnormal and therefore wrong: people say that anal sex is an unnatural use of that part of our body, but what can we make of the fact that anal sex is very pleasurable for many males and females - naturally? For many, sexual stimulation of that part of the body is inherently pleasurable, so is surely no more unnatural than the sexual pleasure caused by stimulating the female breast, for example? As long as non-procreative sex is tolerated in society, and we have access to birth control, viagra, etc, than homosexual sex can no more be condemned as unnatural than the wide variety of foreplay straight couples engage in.

To people who say that homosexuality in the natural world isn't normal: YOU'RE TOTALLY RIGHT! It isn't normal (as in it isn't the norm), but having red hard also isn't the norm. Would you restrict the rights of redheads because of the fact that they were simply born the way that they were? No? Well, then why would you in turn descriminate against gays? Oh, what's what? People arn't born gay? Then how come the scientific community agrees that homosexuality is naturally occuring? How did they isolate and identifiy the gay gene? Oh, that's right? The anti-gay people happen to also be the pro-bible people who don't care what science has to say anyway. That's a shame. For the rest of the civillized world, we'll stick to fact, not faith.

... just pick what works for ya, and reject what doesn't ...

Romans 13:9-10 (New International Version)

The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

a. Romans 13:9 Exodus 20:13-15,17; Deut. 5:17-19,21
b. Romans 13:9 Lev. 19:18

Scotty D, they didn't identify any "gay gene" because there most likely isn't one. The consensus is that there are a variety of genes at play, coupled with chemical conditions during neonatal development, that interact with environmental factors (that's socialising, upbringing and so forth, not ,like, chemical plants or cellphone towers in the neighborhood) - i.e. nature AND nurture.

Amy, that's right! Stop pleasing yourselves, straight gay-haters, and just get to pro-creating! No more blowjobs, handjobs, boobjobs, anal sex, sex with condoms or other birth control, lingerie, handcuffs, strip clubs, masturbation, pornography, or anything else that you might find fun sexually. After all, taint natural folks! Just get to making babies, and you women folk get ready to keep poppin' em out every nine months. Don't let us catch you doing any funny stuff in between baby-making though!

#102 just because you support pro gay rights doesnt make you open minded. Being open minded entails accepting all ideas to an extent not bashing the opinions of others. "children of gay parents are happier than kids with straight parents"? why would you even say that. thats not a proven fact and thats just offending a lot of people, whether they support your side or not. good job supporting a step back in our progress for equality.

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Just wanted to mention to Wigglebear who posted this quote:

"1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

-- the word HOMOSEXUALS was not around in bible times, you reckon the guy who "translated" it into english took some liberty's there? hmmm..

Man this is terrible. Not only is it dishonest: it's not even funny!

How do such funny people do such a dumb skit? I don't care where you stand on the issue, this just isn't that funny.

Make adultery a felony... because it says it's bad in the bible. Teaching children to accept adulterers as equals will just cause them to want to try adultery for themselves - something they would never otherwise try.

Castration or the female version of castration (superglue?)

OUTLAW ADULTERY NOW!

there is no "God".

I thought it was amusing and to the point.

The supporters of prop 8 had all of Hollywood against them. They were outspent by the anti-8 campaign $50million-45 million. And prop 8 still passed!

Accept it. stop whining and move on with your lives.